Monday, May 09, 2005

RELATIONSHIPS, PT. 1: R-E-S-P-E-C-T

So the Nightriders conducted a meeting of the minds in a secret Southern Indiana compound Saturday night -- a secret compound with ice cream, where each little extra you buy costs about $75.00. Or so it seemed.

Anyway, we Manly Men began to hold forth, and to explain what it is we want out of a relationship, and to explain how it is different from the way it is usually described by women.

It's all about respect. TESTIFY! We want to know that we are IT (whatever it is. Of course, in the context of a marital or serious romantic relationship, "it" is everything -- but the formula and dynamic holds true, on a limited scale, for other relationships -- even business ones). You gals are so used to accepting the compliments, you are often a tad stingy, or, dare I say it, boring and uninventive, about handing them out. A woman who knows how to make a man feel secure and wanted will do better than one who always likes to keep us guessing, keep us off-balance, etc.

Ironically, this is often the complete opposite of what many women do in the real world. I've had female friends who have even expressed such sentiments -- they don't want the guy to "get too cocky", or they want to keep him on edge so he won't neglect her.

Dumb, dumb, dumb. It may work for awhile but it will eventually breed hostility, passive aggressiveness, or even boredom. And statistically speaking, there are many more decent available women than is true in reverse. If you play stupid games with him, he'll find a girl who won't.

Now, you may be saying, "But it's true about guys having big egos. My man always wants me to make him feel like a million bucks, but he doesn't do anything for me. He doesn't respect me in return. He doesn't go out of his way for me. He doesn't even use his manners half the time, and he won't communicate with me."

To such a sentiment I would humbly say, "Why are you with him in the first place, then?" What's wrong with you that you are in a relationship with such a man, or that you are attracted to such a man? The first rule of thumb when you're trying to figure out why you're alone (and I know it works both ways) is simple: look at yourself. Especially if you've dated a lot. You are the common denominator in all those failed relationships. As the saying goes "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result each time."

I've known several girls who say, "But I only date guys who go to church," or any number of other criteria: don't drink, have a clean past, lead a youth group, shine old ladies' shoes, etc. That's just stats on a page, gals. It doesn't tell you anything about whether he is right for you now. Where a person has been is what makes them who they are -- and that can work for the better or the worse, depending on how a person let's God instruct and lead them. So find a good guy (of course, how to do that could be a whole series of columns in its own right) and then RESPECT him. Make him feel like he's the king of the world, not "good enough for now."

This should be academic, but it's surprising how few girls do it.

I don't often talk about my past marriage in this column -- largely because it's not appropriate to the forum, and because I was taught "if you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all." But I can tell you that lack of respect, lack of being made to feel secure, and that I was "the one", was crippling.

My ex (we'll call her "Dee", because I don't know any other Dee's) had this male friend (actually two. and it was a nearly identical situation. But we'll just talk about the one she cheated on me with -- the one she's now having identical twin girls with, who are due on my birthday. Oh, the irony!) anyway, Dee had this male friend that she "hung out with" when we were dating. Now, B-Dog was a Metro before Metro's were cool. I've always had gal pals, so I was pretty trusting about the whole thing. In truth, I had no idea anything was amiss until well after we were married. I did find out after we were married that her "friend" (we'll call him "Ivan") was actually an ex-boyfriend. Now, to me, that is a crucial fact to omit. Ex-lovers hanging out -- that just gives me pause. But particularly when that fact is not disclosed up front, and it is passed off as a brother-sister type friendship.
As the marriage wore on, I was often made to feel that, if things didn't "work out," she could always take up with this guy (or that other one). Now, I realize all you moral Monkey Maniac gals would never go that far, but you are still going to undermine whatever relationship you're in if you talk up other guys, or make him feel like he has to compete. You won't get what you're trying to get, trust me.
And again, if it's a serious issue of "I can't respect him though," or "but he has no respect for me," then shame on you for being with him in the first place, no matter what his "stat sheet" says. You should have taken the time to get to know him strictly as a friend first, and then you could have become (as sure as any finite human being can become) confident that he was the kind of guy who would be worthy of your respect in a dating/ courting relationship.

But that's just my opinion. Next ....

8 Comments:

At Wed May 11, 07:17:00 AM PDT, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You speak much truth, my friend.

And it is very big of you to give actual "names" to your ex and her boyfriend. I gave mine "names" too, but not like those...

 
At Wed May 11, 08:03:00 AM PDT, Blogger Bobby said...

Thanks! I can tell through Sitemeter that the column was very widely read, but nobody left any comments. So now this post is only about 98 comments behind Lorie's latest.

A girl from my childhood church got married to a cad in 1994. Within a year it was over. He had cheated on her, slapped her, and had developed the habit of calling her "fat" in public. She was actually quite petite, but she had gained about 10 pounds during their year of marriage (as had he).
To this day she won't say his name (when he's spoken of, it's under his code name "Dufus.")

 
At Wed May 11, 08:19:00 AM PDT, Anonymous Anonymous said...

When I first read this, I thought, why in the world is no one leaving comments? I could talk all day about this. I tend to get on my soapbox pretty easily on this issue (funny for someone who has had 1 date in 2 years of singleness), but really. Like you pointed out, so many people date people they would never marry, put up with crap they shouldn't, and hope to change the other person. Why, why, why? We all need to be reminded of the blessings of being single. Your post did an excellent job of putting forth a healthy perspective on all of this.

 
At Wed May 11, 08:20:00 AM PDT, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And Dufus is kind, compared to my choice.

 
At Wed May 11, 09:14:00 AM PDT, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The non-negotiables on my list:

Has a beautiful heart and will stay up all night talking with me.

And my names are generally only spoken in the privacy of my own home.

Yes, Cheryl, definitely male for you. Since we have now established that you are a woman...

 
At Wed May 11, 10:01:00 AM PDT, Blogger Bobby said...

Sarah and Cheryl: good qualities and attributes. Way better than most single people (males, too) will rattle off.
There is still some "how exactly is this defined" in the qualities you look for, Cheryl. Which is a good thing, btw. But it speaks to the fact that there is no substitute for really getting to know someone and establish communication patterns before getting exclusive or worrying about "dating." Which is what I was alluding to when I castigated those who think you can just look at someone's background or factor in "stats on a page."
Here's one example, and it's a little touchy -- perhaps some of you will have a divergent opinion. But frankly, I have known Christians who say they must have someone who has "saved him(her)self for marriage." Total bunk.
Now, it is great, righteous, and more so, REQUIRED by God that sex exist only in a marital relationship. But to go beyond "I want someone Godly" to "Godly means they've saved themselves for marriage" is folly. It mocks the whole notion of fall and redemtion, change through Christ -- even the continuous effect of the blood of Christ on an individual consecrated to Him.
You can't just throw up those kind of regulations, i.e., my mate must match my regulations, and expect that it will save you from disaster.
I'm a bit older than most of you readers, especially you singletons (that's some Bridget Jones terminology for you), and I've seen a lot, heard a lot, read a lot, both from older people and contemporaries. And I can tell you that, along with lesser but important qualities like "common interests/ sense of humor" the surest way to have a successful marriage (which statistics indicate will not happen in the case of more than half of all evangelical Christians, so don't get cocky, people) is to find someone who exhibits the Fruits of the Spirit, and someone with whom you have great communication. And the only way you can tell either of those things is to take the time to get to know him/her before getting serious or dating, or whatever other kind of terminology you use. Don't think you can tell because he leads youth worship, or she wears a True Love Waits ring, or he's done x amount of mission work, or she's really popular at church, etc. Stats can deceive, and they HAVE deceived many, many people that I have known in one way or another. GET TO KNOW THE PERSON.
Some of my advice sounds a little like the "I kissed dating goodbye" approach. I have read some of that stuff, and I can't say I agree with all of it -- I think some of those people took some basic truths and went too far in the other direction. But basically, they're on to something.
So Cheryl, you're right not to date much. More harm than good can come from casual dating, playing the field, letting yourself get set up all the time ... sure, you could find the person of your dreams like that. Some people do. But the odds aren't good. The things I'm saying are designed to increase your odds.
Sarah: no one can really fault you for calling him something he has proven himself to be!
Cheryl: clarify what you mean about finding it hard to be encouraging to a single guy. I assume you mean that you don't want your encouragement to be taken to mean you're interested in him, which is understandable. Is that what you mean?

 
At Wed May 11, 12:58:00 PM PDT, Blogger Bobby said...

I would worry about that too if I were a girl. But really, to a certain extent it comes with the territory. We guys have it worse, you know. To actually have to ask you girls out to places -- you have all the power. Understandably, if you're a good person who cares about people's feelings, it may make you feel uncomfortable to have to respond to someone whom you'd rather not spend time with, but it's still easier than putting yourself out there to potentially be shot down. So really, you owe it to the guy to be honest but kind.

I remember my mom told me that she got some great advice from her grandpa one time when he caught her and a friend joking about a nerdy guy who had asked her out. He said if a guy asks you out, he's paying you the greatest compliment he can pay you. That doesn't mean you have to go, but it does mean you owe him respect and tender honesty.

Any other people want to hop on this discussion? Any boys? Where are you fellows? Hiding?

 
At Mon May 16, 11:56:00 AM PDT, Blogger Jason Ramage said...

hmmm.... this is one of those posts where I don't have too much experience from which to speak. I've dated two girls in my 24 years of existence (not including my senior prom date... yes, I had a date). Only one of those went to "girlfriend" status and even though it didn't work out, I'm glad we dated. Let's call her "That Crazy Girl From Indiana." What Bobby's talking about here is basically what I endured while dating That Crazy Girl From Indiana. Well, it wasn't that bad compared to Bobby's story, since we only dated for a few months (thankfully). At first I was pretty happy just to be dating someone and I thought putting up with some stuff was just part of being in a relationship. Relationships are supposed to difficult, aren't they? :)

I guess the answer to that question is yes, but if after only three months you find her parents to be more fun than she is... that's a bad sign. So basically, we didn't have a very good relationship and it was pretty miserable.

Now, after dating That Crazy Girl From Indiana, I have a greater appreciation for the gift of singleness. Yes, the grass may indeed look greener, but sometimes that's just because there's a septic tank buried in that spot.

We don't here much in the Protestant church about committing to singleness and chastity. Sure, God intends for most of us to marry, but that isn't the only option. Nor is singleness supposed to be "Plan B." I think a lot of us would be happier if marriage was "Plan B." (I put that in quotes because we essentially have two options: following Christ, or not following him.)

Gosh... I didn't realize I would ramble that long! Guess I've been away from blogging too long :)

 

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